Like a Fucking Rock, Man.

"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno)
12/17/2014 at 11:40 • Filed to: None

So today I was checking the ATF level in my Safari because I thought it was low (here's a hint: it was way low) and figured while I was under the hood I'd check the oil level. Turns out there was, uh, none in there. The dipstick was dry.

Luckily we had some oil handy and it took about 3 quarts of oil. The engine's capacity is 4.5 quarts. But, while we had oil on had, it was 5W-20 instead of 5W-30. But, my teacher said any oil is better than no oil at all, so it went in anyway.

I guess maybe I should get an oil change?

What doesn't make sense is that the oil pressure gauge was reading about normal. Not drastically low or anything. I wonder how long it's been so, so low?

Also there's decently good ATF leak coming from the engine bay. What the hell could trans fluid be leaking from in the engine bay?

Eh, whatever, clearly this thing could run without any fluids in it without issue.

I will say this, it feels more alive now. A little more pep in its step and smoother shifts.

I also had to move my teacher's extended cab, long bed Silverado Duramax, I was only slightly terrified of hitting something in the tight shop.

DISCUSSION (30)

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
12/17/2014 at 11:42

Check your trans cooler lines - they're suspect #1 for trans fluid leaks.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/17/2014 at 11:43

I'll have to jack it up this weekend and take a look.

Captain of the Enterprise > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
12/17/2014 at 11:44

What kind of school are you in?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
12/17/2014 at 11:47

You may also have set a time bomb by going that low on oil. No failure now, but a set of bearings may well go on you down the road some miles. I know you dislike it, but neglect is neglect - you shouldn'ta oughten'ta let it get that low, because if you let it happen to a car you hate, it's easier to let it happen to one you like without really meaning to.

Brian Silvestro > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
12/17/2014 at 11:47

That thing would make for a perfect rallycross car. It can take everything

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/17/2014 at 11:52

I would've never let it get that low on purpose. The gauge read normal so I thought everything was fine. I'm not one to check my oil every month or whatever.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Brian Silvestro
12/17/2014 at 11:53

It might actually be indestructible.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
12/17/2014 at 11:54

My oil level light in my Benz has spoiled me, I admit. "Hey, you're down to about 3/4" qt down. Just an FYI".

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/17/2014 at 11:55

I had no light or anything indicating that it was anything less than normal. I'm wondering if I have a low oil light and if I do if it's working.

Meanwhile the other two cars at the house tell you when the oil is low and when you need to change it.

HammerheadFistpunch > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
12/17/2014 at 11:57

you may not have a leak, it may have not been fully filled from the start: remember what i was saying about fill drive check repeat? how much went in initially, how much more did you put in?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
12/17/2014 at 11:57

It probably doesn't. Most cars of the 80s-90s don't - my '87 is an anomaly.

Mattbob > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/17/2014 at 11:57

the fact that oil level lights aren't standard equipment on every car still baffles me. They can mandate all sorts of new systems, but no oil level light.

HammerheadFistpunch > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/17/2014 at 11:58

it doesn't yell at you like volkswagens? check oil! also; trusting a German electrical gauge....sketchy

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > HammerheadFistpunch
12/17/2014 at 11:59

I know I shouldn't, but I still sometimes do.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > HammerheadFistpunch
12/17/2014 at 12:00

Oh no, trust me I have a leak. There was a puddle under it after I got done filling it.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Mattbob
12/17/2014 at 12:00

That's because nobody's going to get rich off an oil-level mandate. No mandate since the seat belt has really been an incidental expense sort of thing, that I can think of - DRLs being marginal.

HammerheadFistpunch > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
12/17/2014 at 12:02

spill over?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > HammerheadFistpunch
12/17/2014 at 12:04

Nope. I would've noticed it. I'm wondering if there's a crack or hole in the line the dipstick goes in where it leaked out when I filled it.

Mattbob > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/17/2014 at 12:09

oh, no sir, seatbelts are not an incidental expense. They have to be engineered and tested all to hell, and have to work every time. The cost of the part itself is just the tip of the iceberg. But they have brake fluid level sensors, coolant level sensors, tire pressure sensors, yaw sensors, passenger weight sensors, in most cars these days. But no damned oil sensor. Probably because running low on oil sells more cars.

Tohru > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
12/17/2014 at 12:11

A GM will run badly longer than most vehicles will run.

That being said, check your Goddamn fluids at least every other time you put gas in it. This is a verbal warning, and will be marked as such on your Jalop permanent record.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Tohru
12/17/2014 at 12:13

Every other time I put gas in it? HA. That'd be at least once a week.

I can do monthly. Let's do monthly.

BigBlock440 > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
12/17/2014 at 12:16

The ATF in the engine bay goes to the radiator. All of my vehicles have a transmission cooler built in. Also, it's winter, the 5W-20 is better anyway.

Tohru > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
12/17/2014 at 12:18

If you pop the motor due to neglecting the oil level it's a written warning on the Jalop permanent record.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Tohru
12/17/2014 at 12:21

That's a risk I'm willing to take.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Mattbob
12/17/2014 at 12:30

Incidental in terms of marginal cost past the first x1000 units - but I also meant specifically at the time of earliest mandate adoption in law. Slider-based lap-only belts for the front seat, attached "somewhere", as opposed to what they've grown into, with recoils, rigorously tested attachment point interactions, multiple weights, shoulder restraint engineering...

It may be partly because there's a tradition to fall back on - most of the things you mention have serious potential for preventing catastrophic "safety" failure (i.e. are "safety" lawsuit bait), whereas killing an engine is unlikely to be a lock at 70 mph, more of a more smoke- >funny noises - > Will Not Go. I don't know how coolant level sensors map out vs. oil level, though - that's something I'd expect to go mostly the other way.

Mattbob > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht
12/17/2014 at 12:41

If only you knew how much safety equipment costs to test. Also every iteration or minor change has to go through the same testing before they even think about putting it in a car. All that cost gets rolled up into every part made. It takes way more than 1000 units to break even on most things. But like you said, it's not a safety thing, and it won't increase the perceived value to the average customer so it probably will never get added.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Mattbob
12/17/2014 at 13:01

I think I *do* have an idea (many millions per platform and iteration thereof), but my point *was not* what it costs now. It really wasn't. It was easy to adopt something as a mandate that had already become prolific at minimal marginal cost, and the behemoth that is modern safety testing was still nascent. In the case of my Ranchero ('63), a lap belt for the driver added two small brackets to the bench seat - a couple of bucks. My Rover ('66) added two flat plates, four angled brackets in two different styles, and a total of four extra holes to the body - still piker stuff. Once it was prolific from customer request, mandating it initially didn't mean a huge payday for anyone per se, at least not for some time - unlike many since. Paydays related to seatbelts down the road as part of comprehensive testing mandates, however... My point was entirely that the last low marginal cost mandate that I could think of was "gib seatbelts plox", which occurred at a time when it was not the modern article nor in the modern testing regime, quite.

I also said "X"1000, aka however many thousands - not one-thousand. If you plan to make a platform that takes a million sales to break even vs. one that takes 850,000, the same will apply after that unit - the seatbelt doesn't cost *that* much extra on successive units. It affects the number to break even, but after that... That being said, my main point was the one I listed second, which I apologize for the confusion on.

Boiled down, my main point: the last time we mandated something that was fairly incidental *at that time*, was a long time ago, and it was already common.

It was also preceded by popular demand, an obvious primary life-saver, and fairly visible to everyone, not just people who know anything about cars, whereas oil level isn't an immediate safety call, is invisible 98% of the time, and duplicates the role of something that has existed since time immemorial, even assuming that company strategy involves people topping off their own oil. If it took that heavy a balance sheet to get seat belts mandated in the first place, the oil light may not have much luck. The returns are just not there for anybody wanting a mandate.

Takuro Spirit > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
12/17/2014 at 13:11

I would start out bi-weekly and see if there's a pattern. I've owned cars that used fluids and got to know when abouts to check and how much to add regularly.

Then maybe stretch it out to a month. Oh, and keep a case of fluid in the back at all times, JUST IN CASE.

Takuro Spirit > Tohru
12/17/2014 at 13:12

I HOPE YOU KNOW THAT THIS WILL GO DOWN ON YOUR PERMANENT RECORD

BorkBorkBjork > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
12/17/2014 at 22:58

Remember, the oil pressure gauge is not an oil level gauge. If you had enough oil to cover the pickup, then you will maintain pressure under normal circumstances. However, hard cornering or braking (I'm gonna rule out hard accelerating) may cause the oil to slosh away from the pickup if the level is low.

I would recommend getting an oil analysis after a normal run period, it will tell you if any long term damage has been done from the oil level running low. They usually run about ~$25.

ATF is, as previously mentioned, likely a trans cooler line.